Interview: Reading Widely to See the World

My guest today prefers to remain anonymous, so she will be known only as the mysterious [B]. [B] and I have been friends for about ten years. We went to the same college and stood one person apart at graduation, but we didn't become friends until we both moved to Madison at the same time. We started a little writer's club at Starbucks and workshopped each other's work. Writer's club evolved into breakfast club. We had Zoom club over the worst of the pandemic, and now we're meeting in person again thanks to the vaccine! 

The diversity of [B]'s reading list has always impressed me, and I often wonder where she finds out about all of these books! I like to read fiction, and, although I'm branching out more these days, I still like to read books that make me feel good. [B], on the other hand, uses reading as a tool to help her see the world more as it really is. This is an area that I would like to grow in, even though it may not be comfortable. [B] agreed to answer some of my questions about how she builds her reading list. Summer is coming up, so it's a great time to check out some of these titles. 

Sarah: I really admire how you read so widely and use reading to develop a fuller and more accurate picture of the world. Did you always read with this purpose in mind? How did it start? 

 

[B]: I think of myself as a curious person, so a lot of my reading comes out of a sort of natural curiosity. There’s not really a rhyme or reason to it, except for the list-making, which we’ll get to later. I think following your curiosity is one of the best ways to introduce yourself to new genres and new subjects, especially subjects that might make you uncomfortable. And curiosity might look different for different people—for the audience of this blog, for example, it might be less a question of what you have a natural interest in, and more a question of what you want to know so you can pass it on. 

For example, there was a big push to read anti-racist literature last summer. And it’s good to read anti-racist literature, but it’s not likely to be effective for you to read anti-racist literature because you feel like you have to so you can post the right things on Instagram. There’s been at least one article about all the copies of White Fragility that people bought last summer and never picked up from the indie bookstores where they bought it. I think with difficult topics, especially difficult topics with peer pressure (real or perceived), it’s really helpful to get to the root of what you know (or don’t), and why you want to know more. When you have a reason that’s personal—either for yourself or for your kids—you’re much more likely to actually read the book.   

 

My high school in the Chicago suburbs, for example, did not do a good job of teaching students about how racism functioned in major northern cities like Chicago, both during the Great Migration and after it. I don’t think my experience is especially uncommon for white people growing up in mostly white suburbs. After reading books like The Color of Law and diving deeper into Chicago history in particular, I’m mad about what I didn’t learn when I was younger. I don’t want my (future) kids to have the same experience.

 

Sarah: I'm familiar with some of the titles you've read like Evicted and The Warmth of Other Suns. How did you find out about these books? How do you determine if a nonfiction book about a social issue is going to be accurate and worth reading?  

 

[B]: I love lists! NPR does a Book Concierge at the end of the year that lets people mix and match the types of books they’re interested in to find recommendations, and the National Book award always does a long list and a short list. I tend to rewrite lists in a notebook and if I’m lucky, I’ll read half of the books. Otherwise, I tend to pick up on recommendations in my Twitter feed—for example, I put The Warmth of Other Suns on my to-read list after someone I follow talked it up on Twitter. If an author gives an interview that’s interesting, I’m likely to add their book to a list. I’m interested in Chicago as a place, so I’ve made a Chicago reading list that I keep adding to. Friends who I trust to have read the books they recommend are another good source.   

 

When it comes to vetting books, I don’t do very much of that. With the books you mentioned, the authors are both extremely well-credentialed, and I don’t have any reason to doubt that they know what they’re talking about. This is an idea that I borrowed from Ta-Nehisi Coates, a memoirist and writer who has written extensively about race and history. He used to have a blog at The Atlantic, and in an argument in the comments he said something like, you either have to trust that experts in their field know what they’re talking about, or become an expert in the topic yourself. That’s not to say that there aren’t times when I’ve read a book and something about it doesn’t sit right— the logic is inconsistent, or I don’t agree with the conclusions the author is making; then I might do some digging and see what other people have to say about it. But I don’t really do that up front.

 

Sarah: Have you ever stopped reading a nonfiction book? Why? 

 

[B]: All the time! There is, quite frankly, way more to read than any of us will ever be able to read. Sometimes, even if the topic is important and a book is respected, it just doesn’t grab me, and I go back to it less and less until I stop going back to it. Maybe I’ll pick it back up some day when the time is right, maybe not. Another thing I picked up from Ta-Nehisi Coates’s blogging days—also from the comments section, I think—is the reassurance that, usually, life is short, but it is also long. You don’t have to know everything or read everything right now. You can always go back. 

 

There are some books that I don’t anticipate reading quickly, and/or I know that I’ll want to have them on hand to refer back to. That’s slightly different, but I bring it up to say that there’s nothing wrong with a collection of essays taking literal years to read—I am still slowly making my way through Toni Morrison’s The Source of Self Regard—or for keeping a book on your shelf so it’s there when you’re ready for it. 

 

Sarah: How do you build your fiction reading list? What are your goals in reading fiction? 

 

[B]: Again, lots of lists. There are a few writers that I love and follow at least semi-actively—otherwise I skim through “most anticipated” lists from places like The Millions and go back to the award season short and long lists. I also follow The Tournament of Books, which each year does a bracket-style fiction competition and puts out a long and short list.

 

I don’t have specific goals for reading fiction. Last year I made a list of 12 books to read in 2020, and I read about half of them, because I felt like my reading was unfocused and unrewarding. In that case, the list was a mix of classics, recent award winners, and nonfiction. It’s really difficult for me to pinpoint what makes a book—especially a novel—rewarding. I think overall my goal with reading fiction is become less judge-y (I am naturally very judge-y). But I also love it when a book resonates with me, and captures an experience or feeling in a way I wouldn’t have been able to articulate. 

 

Sarah: Imagine that you had one or more kids and about 1/6 of the current reading time that you now have. What 2-5 books do you recommend for moms who want to have a fuller picture of the world? Bonus points if it's also available on audiobook : ) 

 

[B]: These are all very different, and I am giving you a longer list. I told you, I love lists:

 

The Warmth of Other Suns – Isabel Wilkerson. This is my top recommendation if you have not read or listened to it.

The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How Our Government Segregated America (this book is approachable but is a little more eat-your-vegetables than the others. It will also make you very mad, but in a good and necessary way.)

Just Mercy – Bryan Stevenson

Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City – Matthew Desmond

The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down: A Hmong Child, Her American Doctors, and the Collision of Two Cultures – Anne Fadiman

The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks—Rebecca Skloot

Bad Blood – Secrets and Lies in a Silicon Valley Startup – John Carreyrou (this is, uh, very different tonally than the rest of the list but is very entertaining and illustrates a lot about the ways Silicon Valley is toxic) 

Dolly Parton’s America (this is a podcast, but it is the best podcast I have ever listened to)